Is Anarchy a solution?

[ARMoReD FiST]

MOST, would agree....

That "ANARCHY" is a viable solution to an otherwise, formidable
government solution to our troubles in societal evolution. On the
other hand, most would agree that taxes, war and death are the
ONLY guaranty--ALL of us shall see in our lifetime, aside from politics.

When the SEX PISTOLS devised a "PLAN" to overthrow the status
quo--by means of "ANARCHY" planning and development of a tribe
that must not only adhere, but throw down the gauntlet of Anarchy,

WAS THAT NOT--A POLITICAL MESSAGE?

Is OUR MUSIC--"Not a Message"?

Albeit, a "POLITICAL ONE"?

You see, political messages DEFINING the movement. You see,
an ANTI-CHRIST/ANARCHISTS styled MOVEMENT in our scene.

That's fine. Most would say: "NO PROBLEM"

PUNK ROCK--in "Essence" is a "Smorgasboard" where you can pick
and CHOOSE your musical influences as well as affiliations, politically.

You have Punkers, Oi, Skins, Peace Punx, National Front, ETC.

Not ALL agree. In fact, quite CONTRARY.

Question is: DO YOU BELIEVE OUR MUSIC is CONTROVERSIAL--
as WELL as POLITICAL?

Whether, you are "MIDDLE" down the road--oR LeFT.....oR Right,
DO YOU ACKNOWLEDGE the FACT--THE MUSIC has this MESSAGE?

Vote Now---> It's your FUNDAMENTAL right.

[gidgetgoestohel]

The blood of patriots must be spilled onto the roots of the tree of freedom....or some shit like that...so, hell yes, I believe in anarchy....if the government itself is out of control....it is our right and responsibility as citizens of this country to maintain control...not the government....

My son is all into the graphic novel, The Watcher (???)...anyway...I think that the most appropriate quote to be found in that is as follows:

BUT WHO WATCHES THE WATCHMAN????

[KillbushTZ]

We've all had this discussion before, or at least we should have.
My answer is NO!
Anarchy cannot and will not ever work, just like Communism.
Human Nature gets in the way.
Until we learn to evolve above that, we're stuck.

[gidgetgoestohel]

???????????????

[girlroadie]

Anarchy can only be the solution in a society that has not spent existance in constant fear. We have been raised to believe that the only good that can come from anarchy is murder, rape and robbery.

[anti-nazi]

i voted yes cuz im sure it would solve something....like a lack of chaos for instance... or boredom... you have to admit... anarchy = bitchin time.

[GOD]

BUT WHO WATCHES THE WATCHMAN????

What about The Weathermen? The insane cult that blew up cop cars and shit.

[done211]

I went to school a few years ago in texas. They explained anarchy as the absence of formal government.Im thinkin ours is so big so it might be best if we started from scratch insted of trying to fix the one we have. I mean reform seems to create more bureaucracy and its run amuk.The antithesis of anarchy.Lets tear it down, light the hall of records on fire, throw the tea in the harbour like real patriots

[zenprankster]

Anarchy is a nice, utopian ideal that is kind of fun to discuss in Philosophy and Government classes. It is impossible to expect everyone in the world to cooperate so a government would not be needed.

Otherwise, 'anarchy' is a deliberately-slippery term that means just about anything the spray-painter wants it to be.

Music is magic and is often controversial. It is one of the best and most effective ways to spread ideas and information.

Stop terrorism: impeach Bush-Cheney.

[drpkckgrrl]

Anarchy IS the solution.

It is...it really is.

That's all I got.

[donnieG]

I've been keeping my eye on this thread because the topic is always an interesting one to ponder. But here's the kicker: (and please bear in mind that I'm an anarchist from way back...Emma Goldman was an absolute heroine for me) - the fact is there's never been a time where anarchy ever ruled. There's something in the human psyche, I guess, that collectively prevents it from happening. People get scared of chaos, or else those in power want it so badly that they've managed to create systems of rule that squash any anarchist uprising. Believe me, I'd love to see it happen, for once. But when you ask the question of will it? You have to look to history for that answer. The fact that it never has happened in thousands of years sort of tells you how difficult it would be to instill it now.

Ah, but there's always hope...and that's probably why the spirit of punk rock just wont die. Keeping that anarchist hope alive...

[wildman]

I went to school a few years ago in texas. They explained anarchy as the absence of formal government.Im thinkin ours is so big so it might be best if we started from scratch insted of trying to fix the one we have. I mean reform seems to create more bureaucracy and its run amuk.The antithesis of anarchy.Lets tear it down, light the hall of records on fire, throw the tea in the harbour like real patriots

Fucking dam straight,but i aint hiding behind a indian costume! straight up start from scratch

[cm_gII]

The natural progression of anarchy is government of some sort... one set of rules substitued for another's set of beliefs... there are leaders and there are followers. If you follow an anarchist, are you not governed?

[Arab]

The natural progression of anarchy is government of some sort... one set of rules substitued for another's set of beliefs... there are leaders and there are followers. If you follow an anarchist, are you not governed?



Good Point!


Show me one country governed by Anarchy?

Show me one anything governed by Anarchy?

It doesnt even work for animals in the wild.

[donnieG]

Since the term Anarchy has been so bastardized and misinterpreted over the years, it's become as meaningless and vague as Democracy. Since there is no government in the world that is Anarchistic (that would be a contradiction in terms), there's also not one government that is truly Democratic - run entirely by the people.

A better term would be Autonomous, and there are plenty of examples of Autonomy in the world - people, animals, and governments. Self-sufficient peoples and animals who can rule themselves without a contolling body to govern them. And there are plenty movements in the world - and in this country - where people are striving for just that: becoming free, independent, self-sufficient individuals. Those who think and act independently and in harmony with nature. When this country was founded, that was the basis of the struggle. Now it seems we've gotten so far away from it that people have forgotten the true initial values of this country, its foundations: The rugged individual, the free thinker, the enlightened man. As I see it, the struggle now is to go back to our roots, not forward into some authoritarian oblivion.

[PintSize]

Since the term Anarchy has been so bastardized and misinterpreted over the years, it's become as meaningless and vague as Democracy. Since there is no government in the world that is Anarchistic (that would be a contradiction in terms), there's also not one government that is truly Democratic - run entirely by the people.

A better term would be Autonomous, and there are plenty of examples of Autonomy in the world - people, animals, and governments. Self-sufficient peoples and animals who can rule themselves without a contolling body to govern them. And there are plenty movements in the world - and in this country - where people are striving for just that: becoming free, independent, self-sufficient individuals. Those who think and act independently and in harmony with nature. When this country was founded, that was the basis of the struggle. Now it seems we've gotten so far away from it that people have forgotten the true initial values of this country, its foundations: The rugged individual, the free thinker, the enlightened man. As I see it, the struggle now is to go back to our roots, not forward into some authoritarian oblivion!

I fully agree with this view on the state of Anarchy v. Autonomy in today's societies. However, to achieve the ultimate essence of individual freedom we have to view the nature of humanity as a collective treasure. That being said, I'd take smaller steps towards the goal of individual Autonomy.

States need to move away from the stronghold of the Federal Government. Autonomous Statehood. The industries that are so essential to support human life will have to be collectively produced and distributed by the Autonomous States. Industries that house, feed, fuel, protect, educate and heal us need to be not-for-profit industries that set pricing with the collective welfare of all individuals as a priority. Pricing must also allow funding for R&D into future basic needs changes based on the availability of renewable or sustainable resources.

This may take a lot of people out of the complacent, cozy confines of their Corporate cubicle. Free market competition in these industries will suffer, however the basic needs of society will be secure.

States, Like California, will be major players in Autonomous Statehood, but rather then expanding financially, their diversity of ideas and natural resources will cause a fragmentation in geographical boundaries. The diversity of resources will most likely turn one state the size of California into four or five sub-boundaries with an abundance of shared resources.

Multi-national corporate Shareholders beware, collective ownership distributes vital resources equally, not greedy cash disproportionately.

So let's expand on that...

PS Punk Gigs will flourish in this suggested model.

[eggbod]

Very well said, gee Donnie one would think you had some Sioux Indian in you or something, my roots keep me connected to the evils of man and how he can almost obliterate whole races if let to do so! Being at one with the nature and many other things comes into play in my life everyday. My Dad has taught me many ways to be strong and avoid the radar! One must understand Nature first!

[donnieG]

Very well said, gee Donnie one would think you had some Sioux Indian in you or something, my roots keep me connected to the evils of man and how he can almost obliterate whole races if let to do so! Being at one with the nature and many other things comes into play in my life everyday. My Dad has taught me many ways to be strong and avoid the radar! One must understand Nature first!

Osage Indian. My grandfather on my dad's side was "half breed" even though I hate to use that term. I never met my great grandfather, who obviously was full blooded. But roots run deep.

[donnieG]

I fully agree with this view on the state of Anarchy v. Autonomy in today's societies. However, to achieve the ultimate essence of individual freedom we have to view the nature of humanity as a collective treasure. That being said, I'd take smaller steps towards the goal of individual Autonomy.

States need to move away from the stronghold of the Federal Government. Autonomous Statehood. The industries that are so essential to support human life will have to be collectively produced and distributed by the Autonomous States. Industries that house, feed, fuel, protect, educate and heal us need to be not-for-profit industries that set pricing with the collective welfare of all individuals as a priority. Pricing must also allow funding for R&D into future basic needs changes based on the availability of renewable or sustainable resources.

This may take a lot of people out of the complacent, cozy confines of their Corporate cubicle. Free market competition in these industries will suffer, however the basic needs of society will be secure.

States, Like California, will be major players in Autonomous Statehood, but rather then expanding financially, their diversity of ideas and natural resources will cause a fragmentation in geographical boundaries. The diversity of resources will most likely turn one state the size of California into four or five sub-boundaries with an abundance of shared resources.

Multi-national corporate Shareholders beware, collective ownership distributes vital resources equally, not greedy cash disproportionately.

So let's expand on that...

PS Punk Gigs will flourish in this suggested model.

Good analysis, but it's not so much Autonomy vs. anything...everything that wants and needs to be self-sustaining needs to be autonomous. A cell is autonomous - everything it needs to exists is within itself. And a cell is the basic building block of life. Replicate that into the billions and you have a complicated organism such as a human being. Replicate that into the billions and you have the world's population. We should all be autonomous beings. If we were then everything we need is within each and every one of us - we don't need to go outside ourselves in order to be ruled. When we start thinking that we do, we become weak and delusional. We start subdividing ourselves into little fragmented factions. We start breaking down our autonomy.

None of these ideas are new, or even mine. Science justifies the point in cellular biology. And like Susan said, Indians and other traditional civilizations have set up a perfectly good model for autonomous rule for centuries. In fact, Thomas Jefferson basically stole the ideals laid out in the Iroquois Constitution for our own. The Indians had it right. Unfortunately, we fucked it up when we (that is, white Europeans) fucked them over. And as Bob Dylan said, "This country will never be right until we get it right with the American Indian."

[DOGOFGODS]

Anarchy Is A Way Of Life. You Choose To Follow Your Own Guidelines. That's It. Nobody Can Dictate Anything To You, Unless You Allow It. You May Choose To Dictate To Others And Become An Oppressive A-hole, Or You Can Just Do Whatever. No Guidelines. No Boundaries. Be Free. Be Your Own Judge. And Remember You Will Eventually Reap What You Sow. Violence Will Eventually Beget Violence And So On. In The End No Laws Can Stop Anything. Crime Will Happen. Shit Happens. People Will Lie, Steal, Hurt Others Just As They Always Have. Why? It's The Natural Order Of Things. I Can't Stop These Things Other Than To Stop Myself From Doing Them. Each Person Is Truly Responsible For Their Own Actions And Reactions. No Excuses. I Do What I Do Because I Wanted To, All The Outside Influences Stop At My Person. I Either Choose To Be Influenced Or Not. I'm Responsible For My Choices, Nobody Else Is.
Right Or Wrong, I'm Still Responsible. I Make Mistakes, Values Change, Short-sightedness... Human. Because I Am Human I Refuse To Judge Anyone But Myself. That Pretty Much Keeps Me Busy Nonstop Anyway.

Now, Will Somone Please Give Me An All Ages Venue?

[PintSize]

Good analysis, but it's not so much Autonomy vs. anything...everything that wants and needs to be self-sustaining needs to be autonomous. A cell is autonomous - everything it needs to exists is within itself. And a cell is the basic building block of life. Replicate that into the billions and you have a complicated organism such as a human being. Replicate that into the billions and you have the world's population. We should all be autonomous beings. If we were then everything we need is within each and every one of us - we don't need to go outside ourselves in order to be ruled. When we start thinking that we do, we become weak and delusional. We start subdividing ourselves into little fragmented factions. We start breaking down our autonomy.

None of these ideas are new, or even mine. Science justifies the point in cellular biology. And like Susan said, Indians and other traditional civilizations have set up a perfectly good model for autonomous rule for centuries. In fact, Thomas Jefferson basically stole the ideals laid out in the Iroquois Constitution for our own. The Indians had it right. Unfortunately, we fucked it up when we (that is, white Europeans) fucked them over. And as Bob Dylan said, "This country will never be right until we get it right with the American Indian."The excellent example of Native American tribal communities points to both individual and collective autonomy. Every person within the tribe had autonomous attributes that supported the collective needs of the community. --af may have been a gifted warrior that offered tribal protection when needed. DonnieG may have been an elder conveying complex wisdom to younger members of the tribe. Eggbod may have crafted the clothing worn by the tribe. I may have been cultivating the diversity of crops shared within the community. All of us have different attributes to offer, all of us are autonomous individuals. All of us support the collective needs of the tribe.

PEACE!--PintSize!

[Cliff]

It's as simple as this: There's the way it is and the way it ought to be. The essence of the matter is that we ought to be able to determine our own destiny. But in fact we have to get away with whatever we can and mitigate our damage until the paradigm shifts.

I swear it's true. If you don't believe me, well.....

Google it fuckers!!!

I'm listening to an original Rotters 45 "Sit on My Face Stevie Nicks" on a Hamilton turntable. I'm an analog punk in a digital world. Fuck me to tears.

Cliff

[ARMoReD FiST]

It's as simple as this: There's the way it is and the way it ought to be. The essence of the matter is that we ought to be able to determine our own destiny. But in fact we have to get away with whatever we can and mitigate our damage until the paradigm shifts.

I swear it's true. If you don't believe me, well.....

Google it fuckers!!!

I'm listening to an original Rotters 45 "Sit on My Face Stevie Nicks" on a Hamilton turntable. I'm an analog punk in a digital world. Fuck me to tears.

Cliff

Hahahaha! THAT WAS Dave Jones FAVORITE song ever!! Surfside days!

Like most other "Failed Social Experiments" Nihilism, and Anarchy are in fact
amongst the growing heap of rubble that could never possibly be mainstream.

Personally, I would just prefer WAY LESS Government. Sole purpose of the
government is to provide protection for the populace in general. THAT'S ALL.

Sheesh, they can't even straighten out our Education and Social Security
situation. Now, we see folks running around wanting to hand over 1/3 of the
US Economy (Healthcare) to the Government? yeah right. Just look at the
Canadians and U.K. --People die before they can receive treatment due to
the long lines and red tape.

No thanks.

I'll pay for mine.

-af

[Avis]

I always liked the quote:

"The cost of freedom is eternal vigilance."

If you look at our world nowaday, we are controlled and lulled to sleep because of our own apathy towards the issues at hand. Nobody wants to change things, they just want to bitch. Then there are the people who want to change things but are too busy trying to get things done on a personal scale. Shit is fucked, and we'll all get around to it, ha.

[done211]

If you look at our world nowaday, we are controlled and lulled to sleep because of our own apathy towards the issues at hand. Nobody wants to change things, they just want to bitch. Then there are the people who want to change things but are too busy trying to get things done on a personal scale. Shit is fucked, and we'll all get around to it, ha.

couldnt agree more

[Cliff]

This was a central issue in aftermath of the English Civil War. Anarchy first came up during the Putney Debates around 1647 and has been discussed ever since.

Thomas Rainsborough argued " For really I think that the poorest he that is in England shall have a life to live, and therefore truly, sir, I think it's clear, that every man that is to live under a government ought first, by his own consent, to put himself under that government".

Then he went on to say that he wanted to blow alot of shit up to express his displeasure with the status quo. He wasn't real popular with the establishment of his day. Sound familiar???

"Every person by his own consent". What a concept...

Punk didn't start in '77,

Cliff

[Cliff]

Anarchy has become a pejorative term over the years... Probably one of the reasons we liked it in the first place.... But Anarchy has never been about chaos.

Anarchy has little to do with a stateless society and is hardly a fucking political or social free for all.... It's an ethically based behavior founded upon morals and principals that most of us can easily embrace. A society, in which our government protects us from foreign threats, provides valid public safety services and a foundation for a valid economy. Beyond that, our government should leave us the fuck alone to seek our own fortune or fate...

Anarchy is as American as apple pie, violent revolution and fierce independence. The Gadsden Flag is an excellent example of what I'm talking about. It has the image of a coiled rattlesnake with the caption "Don't Tread on Me" underneath it.

<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/dont%20tread%20on%20me" target="_blank"><img src="http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f83/bsaklik/dont-tread-on-me-gadsden-flag.png" border="0" alt="dont tread on me Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>

This flag was based upon a design by Benjamin Franklin and was an early symbol of our Republic. "Don't Tread on Me" best translates into modern English as "Step on me and I'll bite your ass" or "Don't Fuck with Me. Ever." It was the fledgling symbol of our nation, the initial symbol of the United States Marine Corps and an early battle ensign (with red stripes) of the United States Navy. That's a historical fact.

Our forefathers were all about questioning authority, asserting themselves and protecting their unique independence.

We're American as Fuck, patriots to the bone and in very solid company.

Punk didn't start in '77.

Happy 2009!!!

Cliff

[ARMoReD FiST]

Anarchy has become a pejorative term over the years... Probably one of the reasons we liked it in the first place.... But Anarchy has never been about chaos.

Anarchy has little to do with a stateless society and is hardly a fucking political or social free for all.... It's an ethically based behavior founded upon morals and principals that most of us can easily embrace. A society, in which our government protects us from foreign threats, provides valid public safety services and a foundation for a valid economy. Beyond that, our government should leave us the fuck alone to seek our own fortune or fate...

Anarchy is as American as apple pie, violent revolution and fierce independence. The Gadsden Flag is an excellent example of what I'm talking about. It has the image of a coiled rattlesnake with the caption "Don't Tread on Me" underneath it.

<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/dont%20tread%20on%20me" target="_blank"><img src="http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f83/bsaklik/dont-tread-on-me-gadsden-flag.png" border="0" alt="dont tread on me Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>

This flag was based upon a design by Benjamin Franklin and was an early symbol of our Republic. "Don't Tread on Me" best translates into modern English as "Step on me and I'll bite your ass" or "Don't Fuck with Me. Ever." It was the fledgling symbol of our nation, the initial symbol of the United States Marine Corps and an early battle ensign (with red stripes) of the United States Navy. That's a historical fact.

Our forefathers were all about questioning authority, asserting themselves and protecting their unique independence.

We're American as Fuck, patriots to the bone and in very solid company.

Punk didn't start in '77.

Happy 2009!!!

Cliff

Well said friend. I concur fully. If something, is worth fighting for...

"DON'T TREAD ON ME" is amongst ONE of the finest reasons I can think of.

"LESS GOVERNMENT"--oR "NO GOVERNMENT"--remains my motto.

It is my unshakable will, that these prerequisite's are met.

Others, primarily "Leftists" of the sort...extinguish this possibility of TOTAL
FREEDOM by imposing Socialist doctrines, that promote the "Shackling" of the
very freedoms the people desire.

[devilsspeedbag]

As I understand it (rightly or wrongly), Anarchy works if:

1. You and yours are setup to live off the grid and prevent others from taking what you have.

2. Are big rat(s) that can survive in a swarm of rats.

I know democracy isn't perfect but anarchy really?

[immamnBemyvek]

in its purest form it would create a utopia, but the reason it has failed in the past is that the people in control become corrupt, and when everybody in a government becomes corrupt, regimes end up overthrown, either way people who want anarchy get it after communism.

[Arab]

in its purest form it would create a utopia, but the reason it has failed in the past is that the people in control become corrupt, and when everybody in a government becomes corrupt, regimes end up overthrown, either way people who want anarchy get it after communism.



Hmmmmmmmm................. Seems we are headed towards Anarchy at the rate Barrack Hussien Obama is spreading communism here in the US.....